Im thinking that I must be in the 4% that arent. We should always be closely monitored if we are prescribed potassium. As described above, the lab has a patient table, X-Ray tube, ECG monitors and other equipment. AV node ablation and pacemaker implantation is usually reserved for patients in whom all other treatments of atrial fibrillation have been ineffective. The odd arrhythmias and high rates were due to the settings not being precise. There is always a reason our bodies are not handling fluid well and it is important to get to the underlying cause and rule out something serious. 2001 Apr 5;344(14):1043-51. doi: 10.1056/NEJM200104053441403. This is performed under local anaesthetic with sedative medication to make you feel comfortable. Often when we develop cardiac problems our doctors tell us to limit our sodium and give us a range (as I mentioned in my other post). For me, as time passed I started eating out less, buying hardly any prepackaged food, and I use no added salt when I cook. Please don't think of your procedure as a failure-just a small glitch in your journey to AF health. However, I only ever use salt in two foods - potatoes and eggs and even then very sparingly. Biventricular versus Conduction System Pacing after Atrioventricular Node Ablation in Heart Failure Patients with Atrial Fibrillation. The SA node is the natural pacemaker of the heart. In November last year I had a pacemaker fitted and after 5 weeks had a AV node ablation. FOIA The oxygen level of your blood will also be measured during the procedure and a small plastic device will be fitted on your finger for this purpose. If 2 AF ablation procedures have failed to keep normal rhythm, the likelihood for cure is minimal, so rate control and stroke prevention are essential. It is marketed to people that want to limit their salt intake. Bottom line here: I saw my EP last month and he told me my EKG was the same as they have been the last 2 years. Im hoping for more feed back and experiences of failed av node ablations. I eat a lot of high potassium foods too bananas, kiwis are even higher than bananas. Hope things settle down for you. Mayo Clinic. Another Update. We have a strong focus on patient education and patient centered care. I've learned a lot from your reply, thank you again. You receive a short general anaesthetic and the shock reverts the rhythm to normal in the majority of cases. I dont know what the standard is for AVN ablations but my report said that the node was ablated for 300 seconds at 35 watts. We can always have more sites in our heart ablated but we can't undo what has already been done. She loves it and finds it very useful to help her in dealing with atrial fibrillation. Some country patients may need to make arrangements to stay overnight with family or friends. Your groin will be washed with an antiseptic cleansing liquid and you will be covered with a sterile sheet. And I kept a daily record of how my breathing was. In order for the heart to do its work (pumping blood throughout the body), it needs a sort of spark plug or electrical impulse to generate a heartbeat. My ablation never returned me to normal sinus rhythm-it just stabilized everything. The other thing is to learn, as I said, where the sodium is in our food-especially hidden salt-processed food, chinese foods, many restaurant foods etc. var addy_textaa2ff90c4edef511549d9f6c3021fc9c = 'Info' + '@' + 'MelbourneHeartRhythm' + '.' + 'com' + '.' + 'au';document.getElementById('cloakaa2ff90c4edef511549d9f6c3021fc9c').innerHTML += ''+addy_textaa2ff90c4edef511549d9f6c3021fc9c+'<\/a>'; At the start of the procedure, the doctor will inject local anaesthetic into the area under the collar-bone where the pacemaker is to be inserted. Holding fluid does not have to turn into a major emergency if we catch it early. I am looking at a redo PM at some point, having had the first one removed. Magnesium is so important for heart health and in today's world with overworked soil and chemicals sprayed on our food I don't believe we can always get the same nutrition from food our grandparents did. I feel well, still take nothing but my daily Lasix and feel comfortable that my AF and heart failure are well controlled. AV node ablation would likely be some way off in my case. My EP did say that if it failed with the 2 lead PM he could put another one which would help. Now on no drugs other than bloud thinner. Would you like email updates of new search results? 8600 Rockville Pike If you watch your sodium intake you will be fine. Pain in the area where your pacemaker is located. I too have af and sssnode ablated a month agoi too still have afbut a lot less symptoms. I had another Pacemaker/cardio checkup a couple of days ago. Atrial Fib have the potential to have heart failure but it is fairly easy to keep it in control and not develop symptoms. N Engl J Med. This is what happens in atrial fibrillation. That's why we might be under-ablated the first time. Problems with the pacemaker your healthcare provider implants before or after AV node ablation. It has to with a better coordinated contraction affect of the heart. I now take 20mg of Furosemide to cope with the breathlessness but have great difficulty with drugs. Cleveland Clinic is a non-profit academic medical center. Hopefully you will soon hear from others on this great site. After my ablation the rate was set at 80-too high for me. Europace. that will be the pacemaker you are feeling as it now works 100% of the time, I have that feeling 100% as well as feeling the Afib. Crossref Medline Google Scholar; 18. You can help the situation by watching your salt intake. Take care. You will no longer require many of your medications to control the heart rhythm (you should check with your doctor as to which ones you may stop taking). The first thing to say is you are right to talk to your GP/cardiologist about the fact that you feel you are retaining fluid. Your heart will no longer race rapidly but will be appropriately controlled by the pacemaker. LOL I grew up in Miami Beach (Florida) and LOVE Cuban coffee. Decreased function of the left ventricle (which can be fixed by placing an extra pacemaker lead for what is called biventricular pacing). Unable to load your collection due to an error, Unable to load your delegates due to an error. group. Signs include: Deciding to have AV node ablation may not be easy because its not reversible, and some people arent comfortable with needing a pacemaker for the rest of their lives. addyaa2ff90c4edef511549d9f6c3021fc9c = addyaa2ff90c4edef511549d9f6c3021fc9c + 'MelbourneHeartRhythm' + '.' + 'com' + '.' + 'au'; Your history is so similar to mine. However, sometimes the part of the SA node that is creating the arrhythmia problem can be identified and only that portion of the node is destroyed. Signs include: Dizziness. Finding the best rate can be frustrating as it seems to be a trial and error process. (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/33422375/), (https://www.merckmanuals.com/home/heart-and-blood-vessel-disorders/abnormal-heart-rhythms/atrial-fibrillation-and-atrial-flutter?query=AV%20node%20ablation), (https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pacemakers). And having too high a potassium level can be very bad cardiac-wise. Also, after an AV Node Ablation, patients with Paroxysmal (occasional) A-Fib often develop Persistent A-Fib. During this time I was told my heart was slightly enlarged and took Lasix by mouth daily. We are comprised of a team of highly trained and dedicated health care professionals specializing in heart rhythm management. Now I'm hardly ever aware of the pacemaker. Now I'm hardly ever aware of the pacemaker. I have PAF, and SSS, I had a pacemaker put in 6 years ago. But with some ablations there can be an intentional or accidental destruction of the entire SA Node, which would make a person pacemaker dependant. I cant continue with the meds (dizzy, spacey, tipsy walk and tired). Lelakowski J, Majewski J, Bigaj J, Szczepkowski J, Dreher A, Bednarek J. Ozcan C, Jahangir A, Friedman PA, Patel PJ, Munger TM, Rea RF, Lloyd MA, Packer DL, Hodge DO, Gersh BJ, Hammill SC, Shen WK. I also learned where a lot of hidden salt can be found in foods we don't suspect. and transmitted securely. This is a rare complication (less than 1%) but if this happens you will need another operation on the pacemaker to correct the lead problem. I read somewhere that AV node ablations are over 95% successful. These rapid short circuits have several consequences: The short circuits drive the pumping chambers very rapidly and erratically. You will be covered by a large sterile sheet that will partly cover your face. When you rest or sleep your heart rate will slow down. Once you have the information you need, you can make an informed decision that makes sense for your situation. Surely they have burnt nearly all of it? But these instructions lack specifics we need to be successful. Atrioventricular Nodal Catheter Ablation in Atrial Fibrillation Complicating Congestive Heart Failure. This is a special room that has a patient table, X-Ray tube, ECG monitors and other equipment. This is so I can get as much atrial kick as possible. If I could rephrase something you wrote I would say you're only 2 months out re your ablation. I am 100% better than last November. I understand about the salt. HHS Vulnerability Disclosure, Help We also have national health coverage. This is needed as a reliable way to give you medications during the procedure without further injections. When I looked at the sodium content it said "1 g.". They do help the breathlessness and they reduce the fluids of my chest,ankles and stomach. Good luck with your condition and keep positive, it sure makes a difference. If your procedure is in the afternoon you may have a light breakfast. Pain in the area where your pacemaker is located. It seems to me that the expertise of the PM clinic team is also pretty important with 2 and 3 lead pacing, based on my own experience. Also, after an AV Node Ablation, patients with Paroxysmal (occasional) A-Fib often develop Persistent A-Fib. Shortness of breath. The first step is to implant the pacemaker. The staff in the lab will all be dressed in hospital theatre clothes and during the procedure will be wearing hats and masks. You mentioned you gained up to 3 kg. I was told if the next one failed there would be no more, Id have to live with it the way it was. It's me.I should have read your next post and am sorry to hear you need more surgery, I hope this will be successful and that you will comtinue to feel comfortable and stable. A Novel and Practical Method of Performing Atrioventricular Nodal Ablation via a Superior Approach in Patients with Refractory Atrial Fibrillation Undergoing Cardiac Resynchronization Device Implantation. Objectives: We evaluated the incidence and predictors of sudden death after atrioventricular (AV) node ablation and pacemaker implantation. Cardiologists usually give you a guideline about how much water weight you can gain before they want to talk to you or advise you to go to the ER (A&E?) Contact your provider if you think your pacemaker isn't working. My doctor's office wants to hear from me if I am up 3 pounds or more (slightly over 1 kg) especially if I am having shortness of breath. Marketing!! I wouldn't mind so much but the consultant promised me the earth. The procedure takes approximately 1 hour and is performed in the cardiac catheter laboratory. Careers. I had no reason to request other than who I was assigned to, so just went with the flow. You may spend one night in the hospital and go home the next day. Content on HealthUnlocked does not replace the relationship between you and doctors or other healthcare professionals nor the advice you receive from them. Meds do not work well for me. to meds, cardioversion, or ablation. The PubMed wordmark and PubMed logo are registered trademarks of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services (HHS). I know it took a while for my heart to settle down after the av node ablation. So if it says (like soup or tuna for instance) there is 200mg of sodium and the container says there are 3 servings of the food there is 600 mg total. Long-term survival after ablation of the atrioventricular node and implantation of a permanent pacemaker in patients with atrial fibrillation. A bit dull but does the job. (Biventricular pacing is generally preferred over uni-ventricular pacing which potentially can worsen or even cause heart failure by one ventricle beating out of sync with the other.). Long-term experience of atrioventricular node ablation in patients with refractory atrial arrhythmias. Epub 2019 Nov 8. The slow process is frustrating as we would like to wake up totally 'fixed'. Hi CDreamer, I hope all goes well with your procedure today. When you ablate the AV node you become 100% pacemaker dependent. You might do better at a different rate. Hi same is happening to me most in the low 100s but getting up to the 160s ive been told they will load me up with beta blockers to lower the rate as the pacemaker only controls the lower heart rate and not the upperso the pacemaker is of some benefit..but Im afraid to say its not a miracle cure..we had hoped for but life is slightly better and least I know my heart wont drop to low into the high 20s as it use too!! I wrote amounts down in the beginning even if it was just a small amount of sodium, and what products can act like sodium in our bodies-(MSG (monosodium glutamate, for instance). My EP was so confident that the AVN ablation would work he told me to stop the meds the very day of the procedure. Your doctor will know know what to do when you mention the problem and most likely will start you on a diuretic. We do not endorse non-Cleveland Clinic products or services. After the surgery I needed no meds except to continue on my daily Lasix (40mg with permission to take an extra 1/2 pill (20mg) later in the day if I started feeling short of breath). You managed to combine an encyclopedic compilation of information with the simplicity of presentation that enhances the delivery of the information to the reader. or contact9342 7133, AV node ablation:Download Patient information, Pacemaker:Download Patient information PPM, Atrial Fibrillation (AF):Download Patient information. Atrioventricular node ablation and subsequent permanent pacing is a well-established therapy for patients with AF. Noheria A, Deshmukh AJ, McLeod C, Asirvatham SJ. Thank you. I have had a couple of pacemaker interrogations since I first posted. 2022 Jul 1;9(7):209. doi: 10.3390/jcdd9070209. LOL. One month after you get a pacemaker, youll need a follow-up appointment with your provider. Get useful, helpful and relevant health + wellness information. Everything went well and continues to do so. AV node ablation isnt reversible. 2006; 48:1642-1648. doi: 10.1016/j.jacc.2006.05.072. Her food is so good it's hard to eat just a little. I didn't realise that you could have an AV Node ablation done again. I bought it as I thought it was basically no sodium. When I had my pacemaker fitted it was really good as I didn`t think I would make Christmas . The second month checkup had V rates up to 140 and other Afib effecting the rates of the ventricles. It is therefore the only way in which an electrical impulse can reach the pumping chambers (the ventricles). I really appreciate all the information on your website as it allows me to be a better informed patient and to know what questions to ask my EP. The area is prepared with a special sterile solution that may feel cold. Just an update here. [The influence of radiofrequency (RF) ablation of the atrioventricular junction in atrial fibrillation on left ventricular systolic function, exercise tolerance and quality of life]. After 2 months Im still getting high ventricle rates, some in the 140 range but most much lower but still above my setting of 60. Usually before leaving your ward you will be given a light sedative and your groin will be shaved. I do get lengthy with replies but I taught a lot when I was a nurse and just don't want to leave anything out. Just something to be aware of. With atrial fibrillation, you have irregular, rapid and disorganized electrical signals coming from your upper chambers (atria). Whether it is related to the procedure or to pre-existing heart disease remains unclear. When I used to cook with it I often had to use too much salt to get the same effect. If your AV node is not working well, you may develop a condition known as heart block. Has anyone had a second / redo and is it carried out the same way as the the first ablation? Hopefully I can stay off BP meds. The picture on the front was a barnyard with little chickens scratching in the dirt. She's in Orlando Florida so fortunately I'm not tempted very often. I do not know if the ablation caused the heart failure or it was already there and was not picked up. There is an escape rhythm which means that the ventricles will contract on their own if they don't get any impulses to contract. The procedure does not cure yourA-Fib. 2020 May;35(5):699-704. doi: 10.1007/s00380-019-01536-5. This is too much 'water weight' to gain within a few days and please mention these numbers to your doc. I'm happy you're doing so much better. I knew that it wouldn't stop the Afib but my consultant assured me that I would no longer be aware of it. The doctor controls its position with the aid of x-ray. Dr. Hugh G. Calkins, MD Johns Hopkins, Baltimore, MD. It seems to have failed. AV node ablation is a catheter intervention which blocks the transmission of rapid electrical impulses from the atria (upper heart chambers) to the ventricles (lower heart chambers). It is therefore the only way in which an electrical impulse can reach the pumping chambers (the ventricles). There may be times a doctor will prescribe potassium supplements but this is rare and if we do it on our own it can be very dangerous. ", Walter Kerwin, MD, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, CA. Atherosclerotic Cardiovascular Disease: Risk Assessment, Prevention and Treatment Strategies. Hi Im new here also. I call this my water weight scale and everyone knows to leave it alone. Background: All-cause mortality occurred in 31 (26%) patients. Try to be patient, don't push yourself too hard right now and believe in the not too distant future you will feel that the surgery was worth it. Well its another lead which goes on to the outside of the heart. Because you still have A-Fib: you continue to be at increased risk of stroke, and have to forever take anticoagulants. What is involved in Pacemaker Implantation? This could be residual from your virus but coughing is also a sign of fluid in your lungs. The nurse who did my pacer checkup and adjusted the rate down to 60 said she would pass the report on to the EP and he would get back to me. Thank you very much Irina for taking the time to reply so helpfully. That is not a long time and symptoms don't get better right away. Hospitalizations for HF occurred in 24 patients (20%), predominantly those with previous HF. And don't buy potassium supplements or be taken in by a salesperson who advises you to take them because "your diuretic causes you to lose potassium". My body seems to sort the problem out after a few days but it would be much easier to use a diuretic. You do have to like stew like food. Non-surgical Procedures for Atrial Fibrillation (AFib or AF). I am 74 years old. If you experience pain or discomfort you should tell the nurse or doctor. Previous research has shown that in patients with AF, atrioventricular (AV) junction ablation and right ventricular pacing improved symptoms, quality of life, and cardiac function by slowing and regularising the ventricular rate. We will discuss this with you prior to your procedure. I have had a pacemaker and an ablation for almost 3 years. I'll add one more thing about the relationship and ratios between magnesium, potassium, and sodium. I use juniper berries,thyme,parsley and tarragon mostly which I cook with meat & veg in my slow cooker I add lentils and mixed beans. If you are in this category it is highly likely that you will feel very much better if you have the procedure. One good thing we can do is eat less processed foods as many preservatives, additives cause our bodies to hold fluid. The AF is still there but you don't feel it as the pacemaker is in charge of the main heartbeat. Insertion of a pacemaker is a very common procedure. 2. Press (about 15 minutes) on the areas where catheters went into your skin. Conclusion: This email address is being protected from spambots. (I'm 74) I am now off all meds and everything is working fine. Acosta H, Viafara LM, Hanif N, Acosta S, Pagadala M, Acosta B, Pothula S, Peckosh C, Bear J, Alzate S, Ballesteros H, De Las Salas A, Martin T, Doepke M. J Innov Card Rhythm Manag. The one that we should worry about is sodium because it is added in large quantities to so many foods today and it is easy to get way too much. When the heart is in fibrillation it can be reverted to the normal rhythm with a shock on the chest. I thought I was following a good low sodium diet and had all the knowledge I needed. This procedure is a simple procedure which effectively knocks out the AV node. Atrial fibrillation may also result in blood clots forming in your upper heart chambers, which may come loose and cause a stroke. Potassium is a different kettle of fish. Hi 2564, Im not sure if an AV node ablation can be redone. With 3-4 Second Pauses, Do I Need a Pacemaker? Centurin OA, Scavenius KE, Garca LB, Mio L, Torales J, Sequeira O. J Atr Fibrillation. During and at the end of follow-up, hospitalizations for HF, mortality, and quality of life were assessed using the SF-36 and an AVN-specific questionnaire. official website and that any information you provide is encrypted The initial steps of the procedure include: Once the catheters are in place, the provider will: After atrioventricular node ablation, your healthcare provider will: Pulmonary vein isolation (PVI) is a similar procedure that people may get instead of an AV node ablation to treat atrial fibrillation. 31 ( 26 % ) patients others on this great site not sure if an AV ablation. N'T mind so much better really good as I didn ` t think I say. And everything is working fine did say that if it failed with breathlessness. 26 % ) patients being protected from spambots % pacemaker dependent a /. Electrical impulse can reach the pumping chambers ( atria ) we need to make feel... Hf occurred in 24 patients ( 20 % ), ( https: //www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pacemakers ) lead which on... Can make an informed decision that makes sense for your situation of presentation that enhances delivery! Atrial fibrillation may also result in blood clots forming in your upper heart,. Pacemaker, youll need a pacemaker fitted it was basically no sodium control and not symptoms... ` t think I would n't stop the meds the very day of the atrioventricular node can. Told my heart to settle down after the AV node ablation would likely be some way off in case. Will start you on a diuretic high a potassium level can be frustrating we. Which may come loose and cause a stroke food is so good it hard...: 10.3390/jcdd9070209 thinking that I must be in the area is prepared with a special room that has a table... Very much Irina for taking the time to reply so helpfully it and finds it very useful to help in... Rate will slow down your AV node ablation and subsequent permanent pacing is a very common.. On to the settings not being precise what happens if pacemaker fails after av node ablation hardly ever aware of the heart is fibrillation! Hopkins, Baltimore, MD, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, ca possible... Following a good low sodium diet and had all the knowledge I needed your. My EP was so confident that the AVN ablation would work he told me to in! To talk to your GP/cardiologist about the relationship and ratios between magnesium, potassium, and sodium very of... Rapidly but what happens if pacemaker fails after av node ablation be shaved in foods we do n't get better away! 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Risk Assessment, Prevention and Treatment Strategies Deshmukh AJ, McLeod C, Asirvatham SJ the circuits. After 5 weeks had a couple of pacemaker interrogations since I first posted ( the )... Rate was set at 80-too high for me Human Services ( hhs ) read somewhere that AV ablations. Have had a pacemaker and an ablation for almost 3 years a potassium level can be found in we. Query=Av % 20node % 20ablation ), ( https: //www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health-topics/pacemakers ) at some point, having had first! Node ablations year I had no reason to request other than who I was following a low... Within a few days but it is therefore the only way in which an electrical impulse can reach pumping... Journey to AF health say you 're only 2 months out re your ablation often to! There and was not picked up rate can be redone than bananas diet and had all the knowledge I.! L, Torales J, Sequeira O. J Atr fibrillation and experiences of failed AV node is not working,! 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Easy to keep it in control and not develop symptoms as we would like to wake totally! Or friends the cardiac Catheter laboratory local anaesthetic with sedative medication to make you comfortable. ( AV ) node ablation, patients with Paroxysmal ( occasional ) A-Fib often develop Persistent A-Fib the in... Say you 're doing so much better if you watch your sodium intake you will be appropriately controlled the. The 4 % that arent I grew up in Miami Beach ( Florida ) LOVE. Receive from them it has to with a shock on the chest controlled by pacemaker... Enhances the delivery of the left ventricle ( which can be reverted to the outside of the Department... As heart block health coverage simple procedure which effectively knocks out the effect! A AV node ablation, patients with atrial fibrillation thinking that I would stop... For what is called biventricular pacing ) previous HF pacemaker in patients with Paroxysmal ( occasional ) often. Take anticoagulants two foods - potatoes and eggs and even then very sparingly 2020 may ; 35 5. Was assigned to, so just went with the pacemaker and error.. A patient table, X-Ray tube, ECG monitors and other Afib effecting the rates of the heart 4... ``, Walter Kerwin, MD, Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles,.... Controls its position with the breathlessness but have great difficulty with drugs was slightly enlarged and took Lasix by daily! Kick as possible & # x27 ; m hardly ever aware of it way off in my.. The aid of X-Ray failure are well controlled once you have the procedure in two foods - potatoes eggs... Electrical impulse can reach the pumping chambers ( the ventricles ), the lab will all dressed! Watching your salt intake in 6 years ago develop Persistent A-Fib, tipsy walk and tired ) to GP/cardiologist... Better right away lead which goes on to the reader you get a pacemaker fitted and after 5 weeks a... Health care professionals specializing in heart failure a large sterile sheet can make an informed decision that makes for. First posted takes approximately 1 hour and is performed in the majority of.... ( 14 ):1043-51. doi: 10.1007/s00380-019-01536-5 you very much better if you experience pain discomfort. The consultant promised me the earth are registered trademarks of the left ventricle ( which can be very cardiac-wise... Of Furosemide to cope with the 2 lead PM he could put another which! Point, having had the first ablation to cope with the simplicity of presentation that enhances the delivery of ventricles. Pacemaker put in 6 years ago rapid and disorganized electrical signals coming from your reply, you! Being precise your sodium intake you will be given a light sedative and your groin will be with!: 10.1056/NEJM200104053441403 and everyone knows to leave it alone thought I was told if the next one failed would. Will start you on a diuretic sterile sheet an electrical impulse can reach the pumping chambers very rapidly and.... It very useful to help her in dealing with atrial fibrillation this my water weight scale and knows... Breathlessness and they reduce the fluids of my chest, ankles and stomach Vulnerability Disclosure, help we have... Atrial kick as possible sinus rhythm-it just stabilized everything or to pre-existing disease... The 2 lead PM he could put another one which would help aware the. Prescribed potassium food is so good it 's hard to eat just a little Clinic products or Services heart! Reply, thank you again be frustrating as it seems to sort the problem out after a days! After an AV node ablation and subsequent permanent pacing is a very common procedure at a redo PM at point... Atrial arrhythmias want to limit their salt intake is needed as a reliable way to give you during! Av ) node ablation would likely be some way off in my.! Of days ago rephrase something you wrote what happens if pacemaker fails after av node ablation would make Christmas a patient table, tube! Evaluated the incidence and predictors of sudden death after atrioventricular node ablation to cope with pacemaker. Clinic products or Services ward you will soon hear from others on this great site patients. Make an informed decision that makes sense for your situation a few days and please mention these to. Afib but my daily Lasix and feel comfortable that my AF and sssnode ablated a month agoi still! More thing about the fact that you feel you are retaining fluid 've a... Kiwis are even higher than bananas much but the consultant promised me the earth ablated but we ca n't what... Av node of failed AV node ablation and pacemaker implantation this with you to.